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Supreme Court upholds Quebec's religious ethics class.


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#1 Luke

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:02 AM

Its too bad this was upheld by the court, but I'm happy to see that at least some Canadiens are concerned with their traditional heritage and culture being diminished by state-sanctioned "tolerance" and "diversity".

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Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said the parents failed to show that the Ethics and Religious Culture course interfered with their ability to transmit their faith to their children.

“Parents are free to pass their personal beliefs on to their children if they so wish. However, the early exposure of children to realities that differ from those in their immediate family environment is a fact of life in society,” Judge Deschamps wrote.

“The suggestion that exposing children to a variety of religious facts in itself infringes their religious freedom or that of their parents amounts to a rejection of the multicultural reality of Canadian society and ignores the Quebec government’s obligations with regard to public education.”

Such exposure “can be a source of friction,” she acknowledged, but it does not violate the children’s or parents’ freedom of religion.

The course’s 2008 introduction was the final step in the secularization of Quebec schooling that began with a 1997 constitutional amendment replacing denominational school boards with linguistic ones.

It was met with protest marches in some cities, and hundreds of parents asked that their children be exempted from attending the class. All such requests were refused.

The curriculum, taught from Grade 1 through Grade 11, covers a broad range of world religions, with particular emphasis on Quebec’s religious heritage — Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism and aboriginal spirituality.

The bolded quotation from Justice Deschamps is what's most disheartening. Multiculturalism is enshrined in our constitution. In particular in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The most depressing part is that Justice Deschamps isn't wrong. Section 27 of the Charter states "27. This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.". So much for our English and French heritage. Thank you Trudeau. Thank you for re-defining Canada based on your own morally relativist and socialist ideals.


Quote

At a news conference Friday afternoon, the mother who took the case to the high court and her lawyer refused to acknowledge defeat. Mark Phillips, the lawyer, said the course is a form of indoctrination that discourages “religious belief and practice of any kind.” He drew encouragement from Judge LeBel’s opinion, saying “Quebecers need to remain vigilant” because a future court challenge could succeed.

The mother, known by her initials S.L., said she was saddened by the ruling but maintains hope the government will soften its stance and grant exemptions to parents who do not wish their children to follow the course.

“We live in a secular society, and that is good,” she said. “But as individuals, can we not have solid religious convictions and historic roots? How far do we go in trying to be welcoming and tolerant? Where we lose our own identity?

I wonder how many other Canadians think this way? Its heartening to see that at least one Quebec parent does.
"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#2 jayme2011

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:22 PM

Luke
Do you really think kids should have to take this class?

#3 Luke

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 04:55 PM

View Postjayme2011, on 18 February 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Luke
Do you really think kids should have to take this class?

No. Did I somehow give the impression that they should?



"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#4 Blue Knight

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

[quote name='Luke' timestamp='1329548562' post='45568']
[url="http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/02/17/exposing-children-to-diversity-a-fact-of-life-supreme-court-ruling-on-quebec-religion-classes/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter"]Its too bad this was upheld by the court[/url], but I'm happy to see that at least some Canadiens are concerned with their traditional heritage and culture being diminished by state-sanctioned "tolerance" and "diversity".



The bolded quotation from Justice Deschamps is what's most disheartening. Multiculturalism is enshrined in our constitution. In particular in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The most depressing part is that Justice Deschamps isn't wrong. Section 27 of the Charter states "27. This Charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians.". So much for our English and French heritage. Thank you Trudeau. Thank you for re-defining Canada based on your own morally relativist and socialist ideals.




I wonder how many other Canadians think this way? Its heartening to see that at least one Quebec parent does.
[I wonder how many other Canadians think this way? Its heartening to see that at least one Quebec parent does.]
Luke, there's an old Spanish saying that could be translated as "It takes more than one swallow to make a summer". Consider this parent as the first swallow. It's a good sign.

#5 Luke

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostBlue Knight, on 18 February 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

Luke, there's an old Spanish saying that could be translated as "It takes more than one swallow to make a summer". Consider this parent as the first swallow. It's a good sign.

Thanks. I hope you're right.

Every time I see a story like this I hate Pierre Trudeau even more. The ways in which he made Canada a worse country show up everyday. Equalization, Multiculturalism, Bilingualism, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, FIRA or what is now known as Industry Canada. My contempt for the ways that he transformed this country is deep.

We were a better country before all those programs were put in place.



"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#6 orenda14

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:42 PM

Luke has hit the nail right on the head, it is shamefull that even our liberal court judges assist in dismantling the Canada our forfathers built to be replaced by that bastard Trudeaus idea of utopia. If Canadians as a whole keep sitting back and saying nothing the Canada we know will not exist in another 25 years.

#7 jayme2011

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:56 PM

View PostLuke, on 18 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

No. Did I somehow give the impression that they should?

Sorry i did read your post right after i was in a heated debate with someone who said this classes are a great thing and they said adults should take them as well.

#8 Luke

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:02 PM

View Postorenda14, on 19 February 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Luke has hit the nail right on the head, it is shamefull that even our liberal court judges assist in dismantling the Canada our forfathers built to be replaced by that bastard Trudeaus idea of utopia. If Canadians as a whole keep sitting back and saying nothing the Canada we know will not exist in another 25 years.

I forgot to mention immigration too. He changed our immigration system. All this stuff has to be undone. Even the small stuff, like calling July 1 "Canada Day" instead of "Dominion Day".



"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#9 Blue Knight

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

View PostLuke, on 19 February 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

I forgot to mention immigration too. He changed our immigration system. All this stuff has to be undone. Even the small stuff, like calling July 1 "Canada Day" instead of "Dominion Day".
I agree with you 100%. BTW, how do you like the movement to add blue to the Canadian flag (see pic)? The blue will represent the French element (or maybe, the Conservatives).
Do you agree in replacing the Union Jack /Royal Union Flag with the Unity Flag in Canada? The rationale behind this is that the British monarch has a particular flag for Canada, so why not have a particular Union Jack for Canada?

#10 Blue Knight

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PostLuke, on 19 February 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

I forgot to mention immigration too. He changed our immigration system. All this stuff has to be undone. Even the small stuff, like calling July 1 "Canada Day" instead of "Dominion Day".
I think I forgot to include the attachment (the Duality or Unity flag)...
Here you are!

Attached Files



#11 Luke

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:32 AM

View PostBlue Knight, on 19 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

I think I forgot to include the attachment (the Duality or Unity flag)...
Here you are!

Actually, the flag I'm fine with. Adding blue to the Maple Leaf flag would take some getting used to, although I don't think it looks bad in the picture you provided. The actual policy/constitutional changes bother me more than the symbolic stuff.
"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#12 LebaneseCanadian

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:06 PM

They should not only uphold Quebec's religious ethic classes, but also bring back the Lord's Prayer.

In Ontario, they have agreed to turn a cafeteria into a mosque for lunch. In some parts of Canada, no doubt, they serve Halal food.

I am not a religious zealot but I believe in defending our own domain and principles.

I am not a separatist but I respect Quebec's nationalistic identity; especially in the wake up multiculturalism in places like Toronto or Vancouver.

Canada needs to defend it's identity. Awareness needs to be raised about what is going on.

I see it as an asset for Canadian public to learn as much about Islam as possible, therefore, knowing how damned and violent that religion truly is.

#13 Blue Knight

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostLuke, on 20 February 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Actually, the flag I'm fine with. Adding blue to the Maple Leaf flag would take some getting used to, although I don't think it looks bad in the picture you provided. The actual policy/constitutional changes bother me more than the symbolic stuff.

You're absolutely right; it's just a curious thing.
The Unity flag has a "cool" design., but I don't think the Maple Leaf should be replaced, though. It's simple, beautiful, easily recognizable, has a very modern design. But I wouldn't object to the Royal Union Jack being replaced with that Unity flag. It cold serve as a Navy jack, too.
These guys have been in the St Patrick's Day parade here and other events for some 15 years or so. They have a website (www.trcf.ca) and seem to have "strongholds" in Montreal and Ottawa.
Inter nos, if Blue Canada wants a distinctive emblem, I'm pleased to suggest one (see attachment). And if someone needs a fabric or paper copy, that could be arranged with Le Flag Shop Montreal (no, I'm not acting on their behalf :thumbsu: ).

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#14 Blue Knight

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:06 PM

View Postprotagonist, on 20 February 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

They should not only uphold Quebec's religious ethic classes, but also bring back the Lord's Prayer.

In Ontario, they have agreed to turn a cafeteria into a mosque for lunch. In some parts of Canada, no doubt, they serve Halal food.

I am not a religious zealot but I believe in defending our own domain and principles.

I am not a separatist but I respect Quebec's nationalistic identity; especially in the wake up multiculturalism in places like Toronto or Vancouver.

Canada needs to defend it's identity. Awareness needs to be raised about what is going on.

I see it as an asset for Canadian public to learn as much about Islam as possible, therefore, knowing how damned and violent that religion truly is.
You hit the nail in the head, my friend!!

#15 Toronto Centre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:32 PM

Why wouldnt I see this differently ?

This case, presented poorly by the parents, lost because they could not state their case with any conviction.

They tried to make this a religious freedom case when in fact it was nothing of the sort.

It is a class about religion, it isnt a proselytizing class anymore than watching a NatGeo special about Falun Gong is a religious indoctrination.

#16 Luke

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostToronto Centre, on 22 February 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Why wouldnt I see this differently ?

This case, presented poorly by the parents, lost because they could not state their case with any conviction.

They tried to make this a religious freedom case when in fact it was nothing of the sort.

It is a class about religion, it isnt a proselytizing class anymore than watching a NatGeo special about Falun Gong is a religious indoctrination.

You've lost me. Did they lose because of a lack of conviction, or because its not an issue of religious freedom? And if it isn't an issue of religious freedom, what is the issue? Its a religious class that the parents objected to, why should their children be forced to take the class?
"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#17 Toronto Centre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:07 PM

View PostLuke, on 22 February 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

You've lost me. Did they lose because of a lack of conviction, or because its not an issue of religious freedom? And if it isn't an issue of religious freedom, what is the issue? Its a religious class that the parents objected to, why should their children be forced to take the class?

Sorry I guess I wasnt clear.

This class is a part of the mandatory curriculum. It is a class to learn about other religions. The same a science class learns about sciences.

The couple framed their argument using 'freedom of religion' when in fact there was no assault on that. They were not being taught that one religion was better and should convert. It was a class teaching that that X religion believes this and in contrast to religion Y.

There is no forcing of religion on anyone, which would be a violation of religious freedom.

It was a course about the worlds religion. I toook one in Grade 12, booooring as all get out (back then at least) but I do reference some of that stuff today as it did open my mind.

ETA, the kids should be forced as it is part of the mandatory curriculum and they cannot withdraw their kids anymore than you could ask the school your child goes to be excused from gym .

#18 Luke

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostToronto Centre, on 22 February 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Sorry I guess I wasnt clear.

This class is a part of the mandatory curriculum. It is a class to learn about other religions. The same a science class learns about sciences.

The couple framed their argument using 'freedom of religion' when in fact there was no assault on that. They were not being taught that one religion was better and should convert. It was a class teaching that that X religion believes this and in contrast to religion Y.

There is no forcing of religion on anyone, which would be a violation of religious freedom.

It was a course about the worlds religion. I toook one in Grade 12, booooring as all get out (back then at least) but I do reference some of that stuff today as it did open my mind.

ETA, the kids should be forced as it is part of the mandatory curriculum and they cannot withdraw their kids anymore than you could ask the school your child goes to be excused from gym .

I don't think it should be mandatory. I think parents who don't want their kids educated that way should be able to pull their kids from the class. From what I've read it sounds like a course intended to teach the children that every religion is equal, and no one religion is better than another. As a Catholic, I disagree strongly with that. You should be allowed to withdraw your child from a class based on religious objections. Its not like saying I won't attend gym class. Religion is a little more personal than that.

Religious education should be the domain of parents, not the government.

I tried to link to Barbara Kay's column in the National Post, but for some reason it wasn't working. Here. I figured it out.
"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."

#19 Toronto Centre

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

View PostLuke, on 22 February 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Ok. Then why is there an exemption written into the law if the course is mandatory, and you can't be excused from it? According to the news piece I read more than 2000 parents objected to the class and asked for an exemption, and every single one was denied.
I am unsure what law you are speaking about, can you clarify for me please?

Quote

I don't think it should be mandatory. I think parents who don't want their kids educated that way should be able to pull their kids from the class. From what I've read it sounds like a course intended to teach the children that every religion is equal, and no one religion is better than another. As a Catholic, I disagree strongly with that. You should be allowed to withdraw your child from a class based on religious objections. Its not like saying I won't attend gym class. Religion is a little more personal than that.

It is a course no different than science. In science they teach evolution. Do we want parents pulling kids out of science since it does not go along with the creationist belief?
I dont think so.

The class does not teach that every religion is equal, but teaches the tenets and historical rise of religions from days gone by. Ie the pacifism of Gandhi and why he did it vis a vis his religion.

As you are a catholic how does the teachings diminish your faith and that of your child? By opening the mind of your child that there are other religions out there?

Your religious objections are not compromised because the class teaches about religion, not that any one religion is better. If the course advocated that Ba'hia was better than catholicism or buddhism, prosellityzing as it were, then the SCOC would have agreed.

#20 Luke

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:50 PM

View PostToronto Centre, on 22 February 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

I am unsure what law you are speaking about, can you clarify for me please?


It is a course no different than science. In science they teach evolution. Do we want parents pulling kids out of science since it does not go along with the creationist belief?
I dont think so.

The class does not teach that every religion is equal, but teaches the tenets and historical rise of religions from days gone by. Ie the pacifism of Gandhi and why he did it vis a vis his religion.

As you are a catholic how does the teachings diminish your faith and that of your child? By opening the mind of your child that there are other religions out there?

Your religious objections are not compromised because the class teaches about religion, not that any one religion is better. If the course advocated that Ba'hia was better than catholicism or buddhism, prosellityzing as it were, then the SCOC would have agreed.

If the child is six years old, then yes it will diminish what the parent is trying to teach them. Science and religion can't be in conflict, or else the religion is false. Christians who want to remove their kids from science class are silly, and they make all Christians look silly.

I deleted the first paragraph because I think that might be wrong. I have to find the article where I read that. I might have mis-read it.

Quote

But it was not the facts about other religions that bothered the parents, nor do they deny or object to the reality that Canada is a multicultural society. The mother argued that the ERC courses are ideologically based in religious relativism, which is offensive to her. Religious relativism teaches that all religions are but diverse and equally valid manifestations of human creativity. In the ERC courses, children learn that Catholicism is no truer or more respect-worthy than Wicca or Earth-worship or the tinfoil-hat cult of Raelism. Indeed, one ERC student activity, entitled “Youpi! Ma religion à moi!” has students inventing personal religions, to be accorded respect by all. So how could the upcoming 11 years of such banalization of his religion fail to confuse their son?

"God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life."




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