19 replies to this topic

[Luke]

Not that this is earth shattering news to anyone here, but with the whole Chick-fil-A flap happening, I thought this was timely.

http://bcove.me/pshci66b

[jayme2011]

The left fully support free speech if they agree with it but if there is something they don't agree with sorry no free speech.

[Bugs]

jayme2011, on 04 August 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

The left fully support free speech if they agree with it but if there is something they don't agree with sorry no free speech.

Why do we carp about 'the left' when we don't really expect anything better of them?

Believe me, lots of Canadians don't believe in this bullshit, but they are often misled by a media that frames its stories around the continuing narrative of homosexuality fighting to be free ...

The fact is that Amazon.com, Apple Corporation, and other big corporations have openly endorsed homosexual marriage without much (if any) blow-back from so-called 'conservatives'. How many people really feel, in their hearts, that homosexual marriage is an important 'gain' for freedom? The only places on earth where this attitudes exist is in 'cruisy' urban mileux and ll through the media. But people genuinely feel that if Apple wants to do that, it's up to them.

The mainstream separates corporate social-political stances from the products they produce.

In Chick-Fil-A's case, the restaurant doesn't discriminate against homosexuals in any way -- not as a customer, and not as an employee. Their ownership is Christian. When asked, their President expressed opinions that are traditionally Christian. Those opinions do not seem to find a way into their restaurants other than they close on Sundays.

They have never gone to war with homosexuals in any way.

What has resulted is the kind of thing we have to energize in Canada. In the USA, customers rallied to Chick-Fil-A, on the basis of the bullying tactics of organized homosexuality, and saw it as a threat to basic freedoms -- at least implicitly. They don't see themselves as making a statement about homosexuals. They see themselves as supporting 'free speech'.

The same kind of bullying is happening in racial issues ... In fact, this is how Jesse Jackson shook down a lot of corporate America ... by threatening their public image through created pseudo-events that would get widespread circulation on TV.

In my opinion, this is a 'pseudo-event'. I mean it isn't 'natural', it is a created 'hysteria', a kind of sociological craze that is whipped up by a very few people, and amplified by a willing media. There is no 'other side' to this. Mayors just can't give enterprise a 'ideological test' as a condition of doing business in their towns, not (at least) in America. Bottom line.

This is the Obama side issuing their clarion call, using the 'community organizing' skills to create a 'pseudo-event', meant more to rally a chunk of the youthful moron vote to the Democratic party than to achieve anything legal against the restaurant chain.

It's how sex and race are used in American presidential politics. At least it is in the time of Obama.

[jayme2011]

Bugs
What i find kind of odd is on one hand the left is in full support of muslims they should be able to practice there culture as they would in there homeland some have even gone as far and support sharia law but on the other hand they fully support gay marriages those don't mix in some country's gay marriage is illegal so this could be very interesting in the next 5-10 years to see what really does happen with the left.

[Bugs]

jayme2011, on 06 August 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Bugs
What i find kind of odd is on one hand the left is in full support of muslims they should be able to practice there culture as they would in there homeland some have even gone as far and support sharia law but on the other hand they fully support gay marriages those don't mix in some country's gay marriage is illegal so this could be very interesting in the next 5-10 years to see what really does happen with the left.

Yes, but why do we even expect anything different? We know they encourage everyone they can to feel like 'victims' of society ... because they want support as they attempt to gain power, and that they will turn on some part of their support once they get power. At least a lot of us know this.

A recent example ... the same mayor of Boston that got all pissy about Chick-Fil-A's owners unfashionable attitudes went to the opening of a mosque the same day!

We (the people) have to learn to push back against these pseudo-events. Conservatives should be more adept at exposing them, and getting to what's really at issue with the protesters that justifies them making a disturbance. That's my point.

[Luke]

I think its still important for this stuff to be out there for people to see. I don't expect the left to behave differently, but as many people as possible should know that its the left that has the more bullying, totalitarian mentality, not the right.

[Bugs]

Luke, on 07 August 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

I think its still important for this stuff to be out there for people to see. I don't expect the left to behave differently, but as many people as possible should know that its the left that has the more bullying, totalitarian mentality, not the right.

Right, I agree with you on that. Let the Left expose themselves for who they are ... chide them for their 'intolerance'...

I just hate that our discussions so often end there.

[jayme2011]

Bugs, on 07 August 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Yes, but why do we even expect anything different? We know they encourage everyone they can to feel like 'victims' of society ... because they want support as they attempt to gain power, and that they will turn on some part of their support once they get power. At least a lot of us know this.

A recent example ... the same mayor of Boston that got all pissy about Chick-Fil-A's owners unfashionable attitudes went to the opening of a mosque the same day!

We (the people) have to learn to push back against these pseudo-events. Conservatives should be more adept at exposing them, and getting to what's really at issue with the protesters that justifies them making a disturbance. That's my point.

There is a huge mosque going up near my house now when this was made public may were upset mostly because this area really is not good for this size of project but those who spoke out were called racist and many other names my point is anything someone on the right seem to speak out be it about mosques etc were called every name in the book.

[Luke]

jayme2011, on 07 August 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

There is a huge mosque going up near my house now when this was made public may were upset mostly because this area really is not good for this size of project but those who spoke out were called racist and many other names my point is anything someone on the right seem to speak out be it about mosques etc were called every name in the book.

Unfortunately, that seems to be our cross to bear as conservatives. As unfair as that is. I try my best to just push past that stuff, and focus on the issue. The more you ignore the attacks and focus on the issue, the more you drive them crazy.

[Bugs]

Luke, on 08 August 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

Unfortunately, that seems to be our cross to bear as conservatives. As unfair as that is. I try my best to just push past that stuff, and focus on the issue. The more you ignore the attacks and focus on the issue, the more you drive them crazy.

No, no, no, a thousand times NO!!!

This isn't a 'cross to bear' ... this is a charge to become angry about. There's no reason that people ought to be stifled in their speech ... they're calling us racists and bigots, by implication. Of course, they often exempt us, as individuals, when challenged ... but the association is there, and is curried all the time ... the association of 'conservatives' with Nazi fascism.

This is the real truth. The full, official name of the Nazis was The National Socialist German Workers' Party, or in German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

It's the socialists, the left, that has common political ideas with the tyrants of the world. The chief difference between the Nazis and the Reds was that the German workers weren't about to get into a political struggle with a bunch of slavs. Theirs was a national socialism, as opposed to the international socialism of Stalin's gang. And, as a matter of fact, socialist parties don't have a great record when it comes to racial stuff anyway. They may stir up feelings of racial injustice where they can, but when they achieve power, they are often very racially oppressive. Certain racial groups become political enemies. They end up killing a lot of their own citizens ... the Gemans killed 13 million or so, but the Russia Communists killed many times that. And Mao is said to have killed 90 million of his own people.

None of it has a connection to conservatives. The leftists forge a connection by using this 'right wing/left wing' idea. Anyone on the right is a mean spirited racist. Anyone on the left is a warrior in a battle for equality and justice.

In fact, most North American conservatives are liberals in the old, ninteenth century use of the term. They believe in markets and a small government, and leave a lot to sense of obligation that a man has to his community -- at least they say they believe in those things. In Canada, we had a Tory party, which was the party of the imperial connection ... stressing loyalty to the Queen and the Church of England ... and obviously, this group had nowhere to go after Britain scorned us as a trading partner. It became a 'red Tory' party, a kind of "me too" party, following around Trudeau's Liberals party trying to up the ante ...

There is no justification in branding Canadian Conservatives as racists ...none. It's an insult. That's how I feel about it.

[Luke]

Bugs,
I wasn't trying to say don't be angry about it, just that the best way to combat it is to focus on the issue and not allow the charge to stop you from making your point. When I said its a cross to bear, I just mean that there's little that can be done to stop people from throwing those epithets around. I don't see a point in allowing them to see that I'm angered by their insults because that means they rattled, or upset me. I'm not giving them that satisfaction.

[Bugs]

Luke, on 08 August 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Bugs,
I wasn't trying to say don't be angry about it, just that the best way to combat it is to focus on the issue and not allow the charge to stop you from making your point. When I said its a cross to bear, I just mean that there's little that can be done to stop people from throwing those epithets around. I don't see a point in allowing them to see that I'm angered by their insults because that means they rattled, or upset me. I'm not giving them that satisfaction.

I know I sound angry sometimes, but I am not. I am just trying to make my point forcefully. Nothing holds conservative thinking back (in the wider public) more than this prejudice about the so-called 'right wing', and I really mean to encourage people to push back against these slurs.

What is called 'conservatism' is basically mostly what the mainstream believes. I think I am in the mainstream, to tell you the truth, but the lefties would have you think I am a dangerous right-winger just because I think it's a good thing when governments balance their budgets, and limit their activities to what they do well. It's crazy.

I apologize if my frustration leads you to feel brow-beaten. It's not my intent.

[jayme2011]

Tell me when people say police have to use common sense when going to people of colour but not anyone what does that say?

[Luke]

Bugs, on 10 August 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

I know I sound angry sometimes, but I am not. I am just trying to make my point forcefully. Nothing holds conservative thinking back (in the wider public) more than this prejudice about the so-called 'right wing', and I really mean to encourage people to push back against these slurs.

What is called 'conservatism' is basically mostly what the mainstream believes. I think I am in the mainstream, to tell you the truth, but the lefties would have you think I am a dangerous right-winger just because I think it's a good thing when governments balance their budgets, and limit their activities to what they do well. It's crazy.

I apologize if my frustration leads you to feel brow-beaten. It's not my intent.

I didn't feel brow-beaten, but thank you for the concern. I agree we have to push back against it.

[Luke]

jayme2011, on 10 August 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Tell me when people say police have to use common sense when going to people of colour but not anyone what does that say?

Who are you responding to?

[Blue Knight]

Luke, on 10 August 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

I didn't feel brow-beaten, but thank you for the concern. I agree we have to push back against it.

I couldn't agree more with you, but my question often is... how?
I liked very much Bugs' explanation of the Nazi ideology and Party name. Few people seem to understand that Nazism and Communism are cousins.

[RobMcGill]

There are bad apples on both sides of the fence. Just because a few people write some articles, doesn't mean they speak for the entire left. There are also a lot of fools on the right. According to Vic Toews I support pedophiles so maybe I should assume that means all conservatives are morons like him. These Left vs Right discussions are usually more about encouraging each others bias than actually using critical thinking. Liberals are not more racist and conservatives, and conservatives are not more racist than liberals. This is only another form of prejudice being perpetuated by both sides.

[Luke]

There are definitely fools on both sides, but generally speaking, who does more of this? I don't think it comes from the right as often as it comes from the left.

[Luke]

Blue Knight, on 28 August 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

I couldn't agree more with you, but my question often is... how?
I liked very much Bugs' explanation of the Nazi ideology and Party name. Few people seem to understand that Nazism and Communism are cousins.

Yeah, because they've been taught that one is on the far right and one is on the far left. I remember being taught that in an introductory Political Studies course. I think the best way is with facts, and good arguments. The truth will win out in the end.

[RobMcGill]

Luke, on 13 September 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

There are definitely fools on both sides, but generally speaking, who does more of this? I don't think it comes from the right as often as it comes from the left.

The "left" is definitely to blame for policies such as affirmative action. Many fail to realize that prejudice isn't just classified as hate for one group, it is also favoring one group over another. Giving advantage to a minority just because they are a minority is racist. It is such an easy policy to contradict.

However on the "right" there is still much prejudice, especially in regards to Muslims. Many use the terms Muslim and Extremist interchangeably as if they mean the same thing.

In regards to which side is more prejudice I will agree that much more of it is reflected in Liberal policies, however as a general sentiment I think intolerance is nearly equal on both sides.

I'm a small-c conservative, Libertarian leaning in ideology... So I try to remain unbiased. Both sides have some really good ideas, and both have some really bad ones.