14 replies to this topic

[Bugs]

Uh oh ... when I first saw this, I thought ... the blackmail begins again!

Quote

PQ reveals referendum strategy as election looms

The strategy of the Parti Québécois, if it wins the upcoming Quebec election, is to stage a series of constitutional and financial battles with Ottawa – and use any defeat to help build its case for sovereignty.

With an election expected to be called this week, the PQ refuses to lay out a timetable for a third referendum on sovereignty in the event of a victory. Still, the PQ promises that it would immediately try and whip up popular support – possibly through a referendum on its constitutional demands – in a bid to obtain more powers and money from the federal government.

“I don’t see how we can lose,” Bernard Drainville, a PQ MNA and lead party spokesman on constitutional issues, said in an interview. “If Quebec wins, it becomes stronger. If Quebec is rebuffed, the demonstration is made that there is a limit to our ability to progress in this country.”


The PQ’s stand will pose a challenge to the Harper government, which is vowing to stay out of the provincial ballot that is expected to be called on Wednesday, with a vote on Sept. 4. In a statement, the Prime Minister’s Office said the government will not comment on hypothetical questions.

[....]

The issue of Canada-Quebec relations is guaranteed to play a part in the provincial election. The governing Liberals are set to campaign on a promise of constitutional stability, arguing that PQ Leader Pauline Marois’s priority is calling a third referendum on sovereignty and causing political chaos in the province. The upstart Coalition Avenir Québec, meanwhile, is trying to attract sovereigntist and federalist voters with its promise of a 10-year moratorium on constitutional battles, in order to focus on economic and social matters.

The PQ is refusing to box itself in on its timetable for a referendum on sovereignty, but vows to quickly make life miserable for the federal government after nine years of relative calm with the Charest government.

The sovereigntist party wants the federal government to turn over its powers and all related funding on matters such as employment insurance, communications and culture, and economic regional development. In addition, the PQ wants the language policies in Bill 101 to apply everywhere in Quebec, including federally regulated sectors such as banks and transportation. [emphasis added]

“We want to move from a position of weakness to a position of strength with Ottawa,” Mr. Drainville said. “We will work to make gains for Quebec, to obtain a maximum amount of money and powers. We will work to obtain the largest possible number of victories for Quebec and Quebeckers, on all fronts.”

As part of its strategy, the PQ argues that the Liberal government of Jean Charest has failed since 2003 to force the Harper government to adopt policies on crime, the environment and gun control to meet Quebec’s demands.

“There has been a systematic weakening of Quebec, which has accelerated since the election [last year] of the Harper majority government,” Mr. Drainville said.

The PQ accuses the Liberals of failing to launch effective offensives on issues such as Ottawa’s decision to pull out of the Kyoto Accord or the dismantling of the long-gun registry, which have faced wide opposition in Quebec.

“Jean Charest is afraid that any defeat would reinforce the sovereigntist movement, so he has decided to remain on his knees and be passive,” Mr. Drainville said.

He acknowledged that at times, Mr. Charest has fought back against the Harper government, including on issues such as cuts to cultural programs in 2008. But Mr. Drainville said Mr. Charest’s battles with Ottawa are “on and off” and only part of “electoral posturing.”

The PQ refuses to promise that it will hold a so-called “sectoral referendum” on its constitutional demands, but Mr. Drainville said that his party is ready to use “all means” at its disposal in its constitutional battles.

“We will not only rely on tribunals or letters to our federal counterparts. We will do it by involving the Quebec population in the process, by asking Quebeckers to support us,” he said. “We want the government’s demands to be the people’s demands.”

The PQ promises to negotiate in “good faith” with Ottawa, stating it will be up to Quebeckers to pass judgment on the federal government’s openness to the province’s demands in the events of a referendum on sovereignty.

“If [the federal government] persists on building a Canada that denies the Quebec difference, we’ll ask them to get out of the way,” Mr. Drainville said.

^{http://www.theglobea...article4448101/}

In a three party race, and this can put us right back into the soup.

With a third of the vote, and the federalist vote split by a strong Coalition Avenir Québec showing against a flabby and corrupt Liberal Party, the PQ has a chance to win this thing. And then ... what?

Comments?

[jayme2011]

I think it could be bill 101 that does the PQ in more then anything else there are many many people french and english that don't support bill 101 and if this is one of there main goals to bring bill 101 in that very well could really hurt the party this was not make the party stronger in any way it would make it far weaker.

[cosmostein]

The upcoming Quebec Election is going to prove interesting;
The Liberals were ahead in the last poll completed mostly coming at the freefall of the CAQ,

What is interesting however is the PQ who is polling in the 30's needs to deal with the QS polling in double digits as well as Option Nationale polling in some cases higher then QS secured in the last election for the separatist vote.

[Blue Knight]

Bugs, on 30 July 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Uh oh ... when I first saw this, I thought ... the blackmail begins again!



In a three party race, and this can put us right back into the soup.

With a third of the vote, and the federalist vote split by a strong Coalition Avenir Québec showing against a flabby and corrupt Liberal Party, the PQ has a chance to win this thing. And then ... what?

And then... the blackmail will start again.
As a federalist, and risking to sound somehow dictatorially-minded, I'd say tht the Federal Gov't should uphold Canada's integrity. That's part of its responsibility.
By that I mean:
A- Supporting by all means the federalist tendencies, parties and movements in QC. Funding them, if necessary.
B- Not allowing further referendums unless 2 conditions are met, namely:
1. That all Canadians participate, since Quebec's independence will influence the whole of Canada.
2. Even if the referendum is won by the separatists, they must allow future referendums on integration back to Canada. Otherwise, the referendums become some sort of "Russian roulette": once they win, they win forever.
C- As a last resort, sending the cavalry! (the troops). (Yes, dear friends, I mean that: a federal intervention or something like that.)
I know the prevailing opinion among many immigrants in the Montreal area: if Quebec ever becomes independent, it will be the first Thirld World country in North America. Needless to say, they always vote against independence. If independence looms, they'll pack their stuff and go elsewhere.

[Bugs]

Quote

Parti Québécois takes the lead ahead of election: poll

The Parti Québécois is entering a provincial election campaign in the lead and positioned to form a minority government, according to a new poll.
The Léger Marketing poll, released by the QMI Agency on Wednesday, shows the PQ with the support of 33-per cent of Quebeckers, including 39-per cent of francophone voters.
http://www.theglobea...article4453760/

[Bugs]

Let's make this into a continuing thread ... following the Quebec election ... it'll be fun to see how we felt at different times as the battle is joined. This is (in my not-so-humble opinion) a watershed election for Quebec ... what's being decided is if they are going to slip 'separatism' into a shallow grave ... or not.

This article shows what I mean.

In other words, expect the rhetoric to rise. The public is cynical about the students, and their dire plight, and it seems they don't want the PQ using the students to get to a referendum.

Back to the action:

Quote

With ‘truce’ call, Pauline Marois tries to have it both ways




The Parti Québécois’ call for a “truce” suspending student protests about tuition-feee (sic) increases until after the Quebec election on Sept. 4 amounts to an implicit recognition of the unpopularity of the protests.

Pauline Marois, the Opposition Leader, has practically admitted as much, having said last Thursday that continuing the demonstrations this month would “play into the hands” of Jean Charest, the incumbent Premier. Likewise, one of the student leaders, Léo Bureau-Blouin, the former president of the Fédération étudiante collégiale du Québec and now a PQ candidate, said, “All precautions must be taken in order not to work in favour of the Liberals.”

The word “truce” implies neutrality. The logic of Ms. Marois’ proposal, however, is that if Mr. Charest and the Liberals are re-elected, the protests will start all over again, renewing the inconveniences to the citizens and voters of Montreal. If the PQ were victorious, the fees increase would be reversed and the Liberals’ emergency protest law would be repealed, all within 100 days; there would then be a summit on the financing and management of universities, presumably resulting in fee increases no greater than the rate of inflation, as per the PQ program.
Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, the spokesperson of the most radical student group, CLASSE, has rejected the truce. Mr. Bureau-Blouin’s successor at FECQ, Martine Desjardins, is non-committal, but expresses worry about “giving weapons to the Liberals.” Small protests continue; they could get bigger after the university and college terms begin. [....]
http://www.theglobea...article4461894/

We might be witnessing the dissolution of the ideological formation that allowed Quebec to dominate Canada for over 40 years.

Comments?

[Bugs]

Uh oh ... it can't be going well for the PQ ...

Quote

Marois steers campaign away from Quebec sovereignty to woo ‘disgruntled federalists’

If federalist Quebeckers want to clean house and rid the province of corruption, they should back the Parti Québécois, Leader Pauline Marois said Wednesday in an attempt to frame the election as a chance to change governments, not take sides in a referendum sovereignty.

According to Ms. Marois, the objective of the Sept. 4 vote was to send the “corrupt” government of Liberal Leader Jean Charest packing. She said there would be plenty of time after that to debate the matter of sovereignty.

“I hope that we can hold a referendum as soon as possible. My agenda is open. When we will hold one, we won’t sneak it in. There will be debates. And if federalists don’t agree with the direction it takes, they will be free to express it,” Ms. Marois said.
[....]
http://www.theglobea...article4469390/

She's all over the place, isn't she?

Charest must be smiling.

Comments?

[Bugs]

It turns out that Charest has problems too ... the CAC is tickling the right spot and Quebec's political libido is becoming aroused.

These are the early results. The article continues, and has charts of poll results going into the election.

Quote

CAQ support surging as Quebec Liberals, PQ slide: Poll


MONTREAL — A new poll suggests the arrival of anti-corruption crusader Jacques Duchesneau as a candidate for the Coalition Avenir Québec has given the party a major boost in voter support.
The Forum Poll conducted Monday for the National Post shows the Parti Québécois still ahead, but François Legault’s CAQ has gained 10 percentage points since the election was called last week. The CAQ dominated the early campaign with news that Mr. Duchesneau, who until last fall was head of a government anti-collusion task force, would run for the party.
The PQ under Pauline Marois stands at 34%, down from 39% when the election was called on Aug. 1. Jean Charest’s incumbent Liberals are second at 32%, down from 38%. The CAQ jumped to 24% from 14%. Québec Solidaire gained two points to 6% while the Greens remained constant at 3%.

Comments invited ...

[Blue Knight]

Bugs, on 09 August 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

It turns out that Charest has problems too ... the CAC is tickling the right spot and Quebec's political libido is becoming aroused.

These are the early results. The article continues, and has charts of poll results going into the election.





Comments invited ...

I'd just want to see the PQ going to the dustbin of History asap.

[Bugs]

Blue Knight, on 09 August 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'd just want to see the PQ going to the dustbin of History asap.

You probably are seeing your wish come true. Already, in this campaign, the third party is emerging as the leader ... because it's a choice between a band of thieves (apparently -- our obliging media keep us in the dark about Quebec provincial politics) or a bunch of revolutionaries.

The young people of Quebec aren't so enthralled with separatism as their boomer parents. Remember when the G-20 met in Quebec City? Bouchard's PQ planned to mobilize youth to protest the fact that Quebec wasn't invited, even though it was the host. It got a turnout, but when the Anglos -- many from the New England states, rather than Ontario -- showed up with their anti-corporate agenda, the Quebec kids put away their banners and posters and grabbed the anti-corporate one of their American fellow protesters.

People in Quebec are still, no doubt, wishing for their own state, but there are practical difficulties in seceding from a nation of 30+ million which is in NAFTA, and the G-7 ... to become a limited economy with a population of less than 7 million. Their standard of living would probably drop significantly, and anyone seeking a professional career on a larger stage than Quebec will still have to deal with English.

Separatism is losing vigour, as the boomers lose theirs.

[Ian M]

And the sound you should be hearing is the sound of trucks belonging to companies leaving Quebec, just like the 1970s.

At least I hope it is.

Its time the rest of the federation punished them.

I've been thinking about it, especially in the context of Albertian economic diversification.

The province should offer any company a ten year rebate on provincial corporate taxes for any company that moves operations from Quebec to Alberta. After ten years, the next ten years should be a 66% rebate, the next ten years a 33% rebate. For companies that move their head offices to Alberta, it should be 100% for 15 years, 75% for 10 years, 50% for 10 years, 25% for 10 years followed by the regular tax rate.

For capital costs, a 100% tax deducation on any costs of moving, including tax rebates where applicable. 100% Capital cost allowance on any costs of moving / construction.

We should also look at other exemptions for them, as well as large personal tax credits for any job imported to Alberta. I recommend the following formula.

Any job moved by a company to Alberta, Automatic 10000 provincial tax credit, carry forward for 2 years, with a 10000 additional one time credit to offset the relocation. Then, each year for 5 years, a tax credit of 5000 dollars.

For Quebec, I recommend that the government double it.

Also, I recommend that the government pay for the licensing costs as well as governmental fees associated by relocation by any company.

It doesn't cost the government anything, as I recommend that it apply only to new busness relocation into the province, as well as the staying power encourages companies to stay and invest in the province.

That way we can reduce the cost of doing business, re-create the Alberta advantage, and punish Quebec and Ontario at the same time.

[jayme2011]

The city of Ottawa could really make out well if bill 101 happens i could see many companys pick up and move to Ottawa where yes there is a francophone community but no bill 101 plus the avg citizen could see Ottawa as appealing.

[Blue Knight]

Bugs, on 10 August 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Their standard of living would probably drop significantly, and anyone seeking a professional career on a larger stage than Quebec will still have to deal with English.

You're right. In the maritime industry, e.g. -in which I have a long expertise- some 90 pct of technical literature is in English.
A widespread opinion in Montreal is that the Quebec gov't tries to keep people from learning English to avoid the exodus of professionals and qualified personnel to other provinces.
As for the QC economy after independence, allow me to borrow an expression by American writer Ann Coulter, "The country will have the economy of Uganda".

[Bugs]

The first debate has taken place. This is the Globe & Mail's version ...

Quote

Quebec debate: In a corner, Charest hits back on sovereignty issue


RHÉAL SÉGUIN and SEAN SILCOFF

With his political career on the line, Jean Charest mounted an aggressive charge against his political foes during Sunday’s leaders’ debate to deflect criticism of his government, particularly on the key issue of corruption.

And he used his experience as a talented debater to pressure Parti Québécois Leader Pauline Marois on the issue of sovereignty, accusing her of wanting to prepare a referendum as quickly as possible.

The PQ Leader insisted that if elected she would win back leverage for Quebec against Ottawa and confront Stephen Harper’s Conservative government.

“I won’t get on my knees like Mr. Charest has done and abandon the fight against Ottawa as [Coalition Avenir Québec Leader François] Legault has done,” Ms. Marois said. “I will fight for the interests of Quebec.”

Mr. Charest charged that the PQ’s main objective will be to achieve sovereignty and hold a referendum “as quickly as possible. She has set up a committee to achieve it,” he warned.

For the first time in a leaders’ debate, another pro-sovereignty leader shared the stage with the PQ to underscore the contradiction in its referendum strategy. “What I can’t understand is why you can’t clearly commit to a public consultation to define how you plan on achieving sovereignty,” said Québec Solidaire co-leader Françoise David to Ms. Marois.

Mr. Charest, who is facing his most challenging election after nine years in power – and 14 as party leader – defended the record of an unpopular government that has faced a barrage of allegations of corruption and collusion in the awarding of government contracts. He adopted an aggressive tone at key moments in the debate to push back on sharp attacks from his opponents.

Mr. Charest tried to neutralize the corruption issue by trying to paint his opponents with the same brush. He said a past inquiry that dates back to 2006 had found the PQ had acted illegally during party financing activities – and that Ms. Marois had received money from a teenager to help finance her leadership race.

Ms. Marois scorned the charges and demanded to know why the Premier had waited more than two years before calling for a public inquiry into corruption in the construction industry.

Mr. Charest also argued that he is best positioned among all the leaders to act as steward of the province’s economy in the coming years.

But in this election, Mr. Charest not only faces his standard rival, the PQ – which is leading in the polls – but also the upstart Coalition Avenir Québec, a fiscally conservative party led by Mr. Legault. The CAQ Leader is a former PQ minister trying to fill the void left by Mario Dumont’s Action démocratique du Quebec and offer a third way for voters tired of the two incumbent parties that have traded turns in power for the past 40 years. Mr. Charest has been losing support to the CAQ in recent polling among non-francophone voters, which spells serious trouble for the 54-year-old Premier.

Tagged with a reputation for being uncharismatic, Mr. Legault came into the debate looking to persuade Quebeckers he had the credibility and experience to lead a fledgling party into power and tackle the province’s corruption and financial issues.

Mr. Legault early on acted as the main instigator in a frequently lively debate. He started with a blistering attack on Mr. Charest’s economic record, which the Premier has argued is one of his strongest suits.

“As Quebec walks, the other provinces run,” Mr. Legault said in the opening minutes of the debate. He argued that during Mr. Charest’s tenure, Quebec had sunk from fourth to ninth among all provinces in disposable income per capita – behind only PEI.

Mr. Charest argued during a tense exchange that Quebec had bounced back from the 2008-09 recession more vigorously than Ontario, the United States and Europe, recuperating 200 per cent of the jobs the province lost during the downturn.

But those jobs, Mr. Legault claimed, were low-paying positions. “You didn’t deliver the merchandise,” Mr. Legault said, his voice rising.

But Mr. Charest had a zinger of his own, asking Mr. Legault if Quebeckers were richer today than when Mr. Legault’s former party was in power. Caught off guard, Mr. Legault had to admit it was true.

Mr. Legault also came under attack from Ms. Marois, who said he had betrayed his ideals of achieving sovereignty and wouldn’t adequately defend French language rights, while Mr. Charest reminded viewers of Mr. Legault’s pro-sovereignty past.

But Mr. Legault said the PQ’s interests were compromised by its association with labour organizations and that it was not free to act in the best interests of the middle class. “I could never forge an alliance with the corrupt Liberals or the PQ whose hands are tied to the unions,” he said when asked if he would support a minority government.

Sunday’s debate kicked off an unusual four-day stretch of debates that will also see the leaders of the three main parties face off one-on-one against each other in three separate debates.

The election remains very much up for grabs. No single issue has dominated the political discourse to date, while close to one in five voters remain undecided and one in two CAQ supporters have told pollsters they could change their mind by election day. Meanwhile, Ms. Marois has yet to release the PQ’s detailed financial framework to explain how she plans to pay for the promises she has made since the campaign was launched on Aug. 1.

http://www.theglobea...article4488850/

The problem for M. Charest is that his success probably depends as much of trimming back the CAQ as the PQ. Such are the dynamics of three way races.

Comments?

[Blue Knight]

Bugs, on 10 August 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Separatism is losing vigour, as the boomers lose theirs.

You're right!! I just read the following in the NP:
In response to Ms Maurois's announcement that a PQ government would block access to English-language CEGEPs for most francophone and allophone high school students a certain Tania Lefrançois sent Marois a message via Facebook declaring (in French):“I am proud to have done my studies in English at CEGEP St. Lawrence. It’s one of the best decisions that I took for my professional future and for my openness to the world. I think that every Quebecer should be bilingual or at least understand English, because it’s our SECOND OFFICIAL LANGUAGE and because this language is necessary as soon as you put one foot outside of Quebec.”
The message quickly attracted more than 40,000 “likes”.