64 replies to this topic

[admin]

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MONTREAL - Canada's increasingly influential ethnic-press industry will seek a financial boost from the upper levels of government to better its business and journalistic know-how.
While minority-language publications remain anonymous to most Canadians, their combined readership is in the millions — more than the country's largest daily newspapers.
The ethnic press also wields clout inside the Prime Minister's Office, where, more than ever, the industry is viewed as a coveted conduit to the multicultural vote.

If there is anything that binds a country together it is language. These ethnic media organizations want tax dollars to help their growth. The growth in ethnic media simply delays the integration of immigrants. In particular, it lessens the requirement to learn the native language. I suspect that the government will cave to these demands in order not to anger the ethnic media but let's not kid ourselves. It is bad public policy no matter how you look at it.

http://www.570news.c...om-pmo-premiers

[Bugs]

It's not too worrying. In fact, it is as likely to play as big a role in integrating ethnic voters into the multi-party politics of Canada as it is to keep people in ghettoes. At least in my view.

For too long, linguistic monorities have laboured under the delusion that their continued presence in Canada is due to Pierre Eliot Trudeau and the sainted Liberal Party.

[admin]

Bugs, on 12 February 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

It's not too worrying. In fact, it is as likely to play as big a role in integrating ethnic voters into the multi-party politics of Canada as it is to keep people in ghettoes. At least in my view.

For too long, linguistic monorities have laboured under the delusion that their continued presence in Canada is due to Pierre Eliot Trudeau and the sainted Liberal Party.

You've stated your opinion but you haven't explained why. I call it incrementalism. Sure, in isolation it may not amount to much but it is simply another, in a series of steps, towards ghettoization.

[Bugs]

admin, on 13 February 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

You've stated your opinion but you haven't explained why. I call it incrementalism. Sure, in isolation it may not amount to much but it is simply another, in a series of steps, towards ghettoization.

Fair point.

If you look at the sociology, you see that its the economy that propels most immigrants to speak English fluently, and to participate independently in Canadian life. It's the ones who stay home, particularly wives and older parents (grandparents) that remain in ghettos.

I think an ethnic press that took the issues fairly to these people, isolated in their own neighbourhood ethnic enclaves, would have some marginal effect is bringing them out of their mindset, and ending their isolation.

I don't really understand why you are so concerned about this issue. Sure, some ethnic groups prefer to live with each other, but as long as they aren't compelled to, what's the harm? And these groups have gone a long way towards assimilating. It isn't, after all, the immigrants that come here who assimilate. (Has there ever been a European immigrant that didn't think they did things better in the old country that the way we do things here? Maybe, if they were behind the Iron Curtain.)

It's their kids that matter. They are the ones who become Canadian -- and this will continue until the time another bone-headed, John Tory type steps with the brilliant idea of letting every group run its own schools. There are lots of things to criticize our schools for -- the declining standards, the political indoctination, the failure to instill character -- but the one place they do excel is in assimilating all of their charges into a multicultural creature.

[Moderate Tory]

Live and let live.

[admin]

Moderate Tory, on 17 February 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

Live and let live.

So, you don't think nations serve a purpose. I have four children and I want them to grow up in an English Canada.

[Moderate Tory]

admin, on 17 February 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

So, you don't think nations serve a purpose. I have four children and I want them to grow up in an English Canada.

I think it's essential that these people be able to communicate in one of Canada's official languages, but if they want to speak a different language to family and friends then so be it. If it doesn't hurt me then I don't really care. Should the government provide them money? No.

[admin]

Moderate Tory, on 17 February 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

If it doesn't hurt me then I don't really care.

The parking machines outside my office here in Calgary have huge Chinese instructions on them and then have English in small writing below it. I'll take a picture of it when I go for lunch today and post it...

[Toronto Centre]

admin, on 17 February 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

The parking machines outside my office here in Calgary have huge Chinese instructions on them and then have English in small writing below it. I'll take a picture of it when I go for lunch today and post it...

Best not move to Markham On.

Whole swaths of plazas and businesses without a shred of english on them. Doesnt bother me in the least, besides Im looking for a good place to eat so I know I found the right spot!

[admin]

Toronto Centre, on 21 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Best not move to Markham On.

Whole swaths of plazas and businesses without a shred of english on them. Doesnt bother me in the least, besides Im looking for a good place to eat so I know I found the right spot!

A tourist in your own country. What is the point of a country in your eyes?

[Toronto Centre]

admin, on 21 February 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

A tourist in your own country.

I dont feel that way, not in the slightest. They cater primarily to the Markham Chinese and Hong Kongers , all quite affluent and ready to spend lots of dough.

I can walk in almost anywhere and be served in english should I wish. Quite often one of us going knows Mandarin.

These same people have brought boatloads of cash to this country , spend it nicely, and generate income for themselves, others and the Govt. Whats not to like.

Add on the fact that it is a tourist attraction for some Western New Yorkers who are in the know , and a destination for some of the finest meals anywhere. I imagine only VanC has it better that way.

And every single one of their kids speak 2 languages , if not more, and are thoroughly Canadian from the way they dress and talk (school) to their customs.

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What is the point of a country in your eyes?

Good question. Never thought about it before.

In the moments before I post, I am thinking I have no idea if there is a point to a country.

[admin]

Toronto Centre, on 21 February 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

In the moments before I post, I am thinking I have no idea if there is a point to a country.

Shared values? A structure for the delivery of necessary services (something that is impractical to do in 20 different languages)? Maintenance of law and order?

[Moderate Tory]

admin, on 22 February 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Shared values? A structure for the delivery of necessary services (something that is impractical to do in 20 different languages)? Maintenance of law and order?

While I think it's necessary that new immigrants should speak english, so that we don't have to developer necessary services in 20 different languages, I still see no reason why we should expect them to live entirely in the english language if private companies are offering to accommodate them in their own language, when it comes to going to restaurants, or buying newspapers.

[Luke]

Toronto Centre, on 21 February 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I dont feel that way, not in the slightest. They cater primarily to the Markham Chinese and Hong Kongers , all quite affluent and ready to spend lots of dough.

I can walk in almost anywhere and be served in english should I wish. Quite often one of us going knows Mandarin.

These same people have brought boatloads of cash to this country , spend it nicely, and generate income for themselves, others and the Govt. Whats not to like.

Add on the fact that it is a tourist attraction for some Western New Yorkers who are in the know , and a destination for some of the finest meals anywhere. I imagine only VanC has it better that way.

And every single one of their kids speak 2 languages , if not more, and are thoroughly Canadian from the way they dress and talk (school) to their customs.

Good question. Never thought about it before.

In the moments before I post, I am thinking I have no idea if there is a point to a country.

So do you consider yourself a citizen of the world?

I really appreciate your intellectual honesty. A lot of liberals would've spouted pap about diversity and tolerance. You were honest enough to say you're not sure if there is a point to a country. Thanks.

[Luke]

More generally, I think I agree with Craig. Language is part of what binds us together. A society where a different language is spoken each suburb of every major city isn't a society that's very cohesive. Quebec's willingness to tell businesses that services must be provided French is something I admire. I just wish they allowed for services in English as well. We have two official languages in Canada, not one.

[admin]

Luke, on 22 February 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

More generally, I think I agree with Craig. Language is part of what binds us together. A society where a different language is spoken each suburb of every major city isn't a society that's very cohesive. Quebec's willingness to tell businesses that services must be provided French is something I admire. I just wish they allowed for services in English as well. We have two official languages in Canada, not one.

3/4 of the people living on my street are Chinese. Which isn't a problem if they can communicate with me - many can't. My kids best friends are all Chinese which is great. But I can't be friends with those kids parents because their English is poor. I can't go over and talk to them about the Flames game last night. That's not my idea of neighborhood or community or country.

[Moderate Tory]

admin, on 22 February 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

3/4 of the people living on my street are Chinese. Which isn't a problem if they can communicate with me - many can't. My kids best friends are all Chinese which is great. But I can't be friends with those kids parents because their English is poor. I can't go over and talk to them about the Flames game last night. That's not my idea of neighborhood or community or country.

Can they understand you?

[Toronto Centre]

admin, on 22 February 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Shared values? A structure for the delivery of necessary services (something that is impractical to do in 20 different languages)? Maintenance of law and order?

I am still stuck on this one.

The shared values, delivery of services, law and order are what a country does or has , but is it the point of the country?

I suppose at some point long ago, as in confederation, the point of a country was to set geo-boundaries to own the resources and determine a sense of self. For example the war of 1812 prior to confederation the establishing of a country was to be in Britains best interest and that was merely for economic power.They wanted and needed the resources to continue to be a powerhouse.

Still thinking......

[Toronto Centre]

Luke, on 22 February 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

So do you consider yourself a citizen of the world?

No not at all.

I am thoroughly Canuck. Scottish and French background .

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I really appreciate your intellectual honesty. A lot of liberals would've spouted pap about diversity and tolerance. You were honest enough to say you're not sure if there is a point to a country. Thanks.

Thanks, but anyone talking pap would be someone who is telling us what it does not what point is it we are getting at.

[admin]

Moderate Tory, on 22 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Can they understand you?

Are you intimating that it is my fault that they can't understand me because I speak English in Canada? That is absurd.

If I moved to China I most certainly wouldn't blame the Chinese for our communication difficulties because they don't speak English. Wow.